Posts by jonathan dough

32

Has anyone here actually convinced someone out of the truth here?

by bottleofwater in

i'm talking about even people in their own congregation, or even a simple comment at the meeting that shut people up..

jonathan dough

By the number of new posters over the years who have acknowledged how this site helped them escape, certainly hundreds have fled for their lives from our collective efforts. Most likely thousands. We'll never know the true number. One is enough.

36

Which Beliefs and Doctrines Helped Push You Out?

by ilikecheese in

okay, so this is my first post, but i've been lurking here for months and months.

i have to say this is a very informative and hilarious site.

you guys are great to read!

jonathan dough

Since the JWs are wrong about everything, for the most part, there indeed are too many reasons to list. You just scratched the surface. Here are many other issues you can raise with him.

http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahs_witnesses_directory_beliefs.html

You can nail the coffin shut with Jerusalem's alleged destruction in 607, their occult roots, the 144,000 issue whereby heaven has been closed off to mankind, their multiple salvation plans, and the Trinity doctrine, which is perfectly reasonable to have faith in.

82

What really ended the book study in private homes?

by Alfred in

it's been over 3 years since the book study in private homes was discontinued and some jws are still scratching their heads over it.

although a letter was read to all congregations explaining that "book study night" would now be "family worship night", there was still much speculation among jws as to the real reason behind this decision (the great tribulation was about to start, jehovah was simplifying the lives of jws, to lessen the burden of poor jws who had no money for gas, etc.)...

but as we all know, decisions like these from the gb invariably have some ulterior motive behind it... and discussion boards such as this one usually finds a way to dig up the truth for all to see... but after reading several threads on this subject, i'm really not sure we've uncovered all the facts yet.... so i have to ask... what do you believe really ended the book study in private homes?

jonathan dough

The reality is that, the Book Study at its former setting wasn't effective in strengthening Christian families which is the nucleus of a stable Christian Congregation.

Rubbish. If they cared about strengthening their families they wouldn't kill their own children by denying them blood transfusions, drive them out of the home when they doubt or choose not to believe, shun them, or prohibit or discourage them from attaining a higher education; it's a long list. Your methods for attaining "stability" within the congregation comes at the price of Christian dignity and is contrary to the will of the Almighty.

http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/occult_jehovahs_witnesses.html

The Jehovah's Witnesses' beliefs regarding the prohibition of blood transfusions becomes all the more heinous when it comes to young children, many of whom have died in furtherance of their parents' misguided beliefs. The blood transfusion prohibition is astounding in light of Jeremiah 32:35 which provides in part, "They built high places to Baal in the Valley of Ben-hinnom, and immolated their sons and daughters to Molech, bringing sin upon Judah; this I never commanded them, nor did it even enter my mind that they should practice such abomination." Here, God instructs man NOT to cause a child to be killed as a form of sacrifice to God. Clearly, sacrificing a child by denying him or her a needed blood transfusion is no different. In no way does such a denial of blood and the child's resulting death please the Almighty. It never entered God's mind.

Any individual contemplating joining the Jehovah's Witnesses religion is forewarned to research this issue carefully, study the history and biblical context of the blood prohibition and understand what it means to not 'eat blood' because the Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs with respect to this gruesome act is not approved by the Almighty, finds no reliable support in scripture and comes close to being a homicide or a suicide. Avoid the anguish for everyone involved and think clearly on this matter. The Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs on blood transfusions are not to be taken lightly.

jwfacts.com and ajwrb.org and marvinshilmer.blogspot.com are good beginnings.

82

What really ended the book study in private homes?

by Alfred in

it's been over 3 years since the book study in private homes was discontinued and some jws are still scratching their heads over it.

although a letter was read to all congregations explaining that "book study night" would now be "family worship night", there was still much speculation among jws as to the real reason behind this decision (the great tribulation was about to start, jehovah was simplifying the lives of jws, to lessen the burden of poor jws who had no money for gas, etc.)...

but as we all know, decisions like these from the gb invariably have some ulterior motive behind it... and discussion boards such as this one usually finds a way to dig up the truth for all to see... but after reading several threads on this subject, i'm really not sure we've uncovered all the facts yet.... so i have to ask... what do you believe really ended the book study in private homes?

jonathan dough

Obviously, people were asking questions and sharing information they found on the Internet and elswhere and subverting the organization from the secrecy of their own homes. Too easy to verify with the Internet right there in the kids' room. Control the mind, control the people. They don't want anyone to really know that Jerusalem wasn't destroyed in 607, that Jesus didn't return in 1914, or that 144,000 will not actually rule mere humans on earth, or that all Christians are parties to the New Covenant, or that all men are not acquitted of their sins at death, or that they have mislead the public and themselves about what the Trinity doctrine actually teaches and that it is reasonable to believe in it, or all the false prophecies, or the sexual abuse, or those terrible things Russell believed and taught, or ... and ... the .... and ... and ... the, man, ... the list is endless. They don't want their wards reading this:

http://www.144000.110mb.com/

or this:

http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahs_witnesses_directory_beliefs.html

They don't want the ones who know influencing the ones who don't. Like the Jonestown crowd in South America, they want to isolate, isolate, isolate.

86

This site is a bad site! I am ashamed that i have joined!

by MsPassach in

i am so ashamed that i joined this site!

i thought that i would meet people here that honour jehovah here.

insread most of the people here are not here for the service of god.

jonathan dough

While I agree that many postings on this site are shameful, vile and hateful, including some of my own no doubt, you shouldn't lump all of us together. And before you cast more stones, perhaps you should educate yourself about this organization you pay tribute to. To others, that is where the shame belongs, so-called Jehovah's Witnesses pretending to witness the gospel but proving false to its power. While nothing justifies some of the bile that spews forth here, many of these people have been hurt and damaged tremendously by your religion's conduct and actions. But of course you wouldn't know that, or you do know and you are lying to yourself.

You belong to a false religion and in your own way cannot be pleasing YHWH. From the blood transfusion prohibition, to the extreme shunning and deep roots in the occult, from the abnormal degree of mind control, and false prophecies and false teachings too many to number, and the sexual abuse, don't presume you are better than these people. Want to contribute? Then defend your faith here, and learn something. Learn how to think independantly and examine facts objectively. Who is the true apostate? If the JWs are wrong and Christiandom is correct, then the JWs are the true apostates from the true faith.

167

Repent because God's Kingdom has drawn close!

by Kosonen in

here on this forum there are so many sinners, many here are doing things that will bring god's wrath upon themselves.

consider yourself if you in some aspect fit the description in romans 1:28-32:.

and just as they did not approve of holding god in accurate knowledge, god gave them up to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting, filled as they were with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, badness, being full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malicious disposition, being whisperers, backbiters, haters of god, insolent, haughty, self-assuming, inventors of injurious things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, false to agreements, having no natural affection, merciless.

jonathan dough

Throwing stones, are you? You're not the first one to cast them. You should educate yourself about your religion. Much has been hidden from you.

http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahs_witnesses_directory_beliefs.html

The documented historical connection between the JWs and the occult is evident in several ways. Russell relied heavily on astrological predictions and signs of the zodiac. Rutherford believed that Jehovah most likely resided in the Pleiades constellation. Many of Rutherford and Russell's false predictions were calculated based on alignment and measurement of ancient Egyptian pyramids relying in essence on the powers of the occult. A small pyramid was erected next to Russell's grave as a memorial to his life and work. The satanic All-Seeing Eye of occult worship adorns Russell's memorial pyramid, and early Watchtower publications incorporate Masonic symbolism to a great degree. Furthermore, the Divine Plan of the Ages, an early Watchtower book, is adorned with the Winged Sun Disc, an Egyptian religious symbol of pagan origins and false worship.

The Jehovahs Witnesses can run from their occult past, but they can't hide. Nor can they sweep these truths under the rug of their New Light Doctrine. Due to such an un-biblical foundation that continued well into the 1920s, it is inconceivable that Jesus Christ chose the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society as their sole representatives on earth due to the purity of their faith.

Do you still believe you are above the rest of us? http://www.144000.110mb.com/index.html

Try proving us wrong. I guarantee you will lose every single time. Not that I'm defending the true apostates and God-haters on this forum. At least you believe in God and Jesus, just not the right YHWH, and most certainly not the Jesus of the Gospel.

42

WHY I'M GLAD THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES DIDN'T GIVE UP ON ME

by wasblind in

jw
friends

last week i had a visit from two sisters from the old hall i used to attend.

and i showed them acts 1:8 where jesus tells the apostles to be witnesses of him (jesus).

they showed me isaiah 43:10 where isaiah qoutes jehovah saying "you are my witnesses".

jonathan dough

if there is anything I may be misinterpreting according to the scripture I read

I will not take offense of any correction,

You did good, though you might have missed a great opportunity for laying some groundwork for arguing that Jesus, was, and is, the God-man, in the proper Christian sense. If YHWH said that "you are my witnesses," and we are to be witnesses of Jesus, then in conjunction of an avalanche of Scriptural evidence to support it, Jesus was, and is, God, as that concept is understood among mainstream Christians. This interpretation reconciles an otherwise apparent contradiction. Isaiah 9:6 provides that the child born is the Eternal Father, and accordingly he couldn't be just a man, as the JWs falsley teach. I won't go into all the proofs, but the divine person who assumed a human nature, God the Son who is the second person of the Holy Trinity, and who is YHWH, did not contradict himself. By being witnesses of Jesus the God-Man we are the witnesses of JHWH. Your friend's problem is that she fails to recognize that they don't preach the Jesus of the gospel, and the overwhelming center of gravity of the New Testament is Jesus Christ, not their idea of Jehovah. Get her to read a real Bible where the name "Jehovah" has not been inserted arbitrarily in the NWT; without those many changes, their religion implodes beyond fixing.

It's all right here: http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/jesus_God_deity_jesus_christ_jehovahs_witnesses.html

61

The New Covenant Discussion

by Listener in

i left the org many years ago as a teenager.

i started looking more closely at their doctrines a few months ago to work out if they really have the truth.

when i cam across the notion that jesus is not mediator for everyone i was startled and have been looking at the issue a lot more closely.

jonathan dough

Stephen: For all those having difficulty with the New Covenant, it is really simple!

I wish it were that simple, but from the JW perspective, the issue(s) is "proving" the Society wrong. Stating that all true Christian believers are parties to the New Covenant is easy, but what good does that do? Can you prove decisively that the Society is wrong in this regard? Can you make sense of all the overlapping and contradictory other covenants the JWs have concocted, and do you understand the motives behind their multiple fabrications? Do you know why the JWs limit the New Covenant to the 144,000?

I'm getting ahead of myself, but if the JWs' version of the New Covenant is false, which it is, it essentially pulls the rug out from under other theories, ie., 1914 in particular, the JWs millenial salvation plan, the JWs' so-called Covenant with Christ's followers, the JWs' plan to educate man to perfection, and the theory that the New Covenant is temporary, lasting merely 2,000 years, and that Christ has a limited role after which he is dispensed with, according to Watchtower literature, and more.

Designs: The Society is no different than John Calvin or some of the modern Dispensationalists.

Far from true. The Society's version of the New Covenant is a radical departure from Calvin or other Dispensationalisits, by any stretch of imagination.

20

JWs and Jesus

by lilbluekitty in

jw
friends

as many of you already know, i was raised in the "truth", 3rd generation on my mother's side, 5th or something on my dad's side so i've been a jw for a long time, not so much now.. anyway, those of you who either spent a long time in the religion or who actually came from a regular christian religion first or became one later, did any of you notice how jws feel about jesus?

though they're supposed to be "true" christians, they don't talk about christ much or don't talk about his sacrifice much.

i know jws (and i) don't believe in the trinity but what's wrong with being more thankful to him for what he did for us?

jonathan dough

Band on the Run: It was only when I read Ray Franz's book that I had an epiphany that the Witnesses are Jehovists not Christian.

They most certainly don't meet the definition and if one compares their doctrine with true Christianity, it is virtually the opposite in all the major areas.

I suppose they are Christian from self-reporting but their take on Jesus is radically different.
Quite the understatement. They believe he was a man, nothing more and nothing less, which is heresy and arianism.

Another thread mentioned that Jesus was a spirit.

Are you referring to the Word? The preincarnate Jesus was, and is, God-man. Jesus was a divine person who assumed a human nature.

May I be lazy and ask what sort of spirit?
The Word was God the Son, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity.

Did the pre-Jesus of Nazareth co-create?
All things were created by him, through him and for him. Col. Chapter 1 and John 1.

So what did Jesus do when he hung out in heaven?
Preincarnate, there was no Jesus. I think you are confusing immanent with economic trinity. http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html#2

What happened to his spirit form when he was on earth?
The manner in which the Word merged with the human is not known and is taken on faith.
Was he truly human or did he only appear human?
He was fully human, fully God and fully man. The God-man that is the hypostatic union. http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html#3

The outside world is so Jesus driven that I find it difficult to sort out the Witness Jesus. It seems to me that the Christology is the basis for the rest of their beliefs.

They don't have the Jesus of the New Testament. Everything they teach in this regard is false. http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html#5

283

Are you sure leaving is a wise decision ?- Lurkers think twice- Part 2

by mankkeli in

in the previous thread of this series, i called lurkers attention to the need of being discreet when contemplating an exit from the jw religion.

i mentioned that the thread was borne as a result of the general observations i made reading old posts here and discussing with many ex-jws and their lives have gradually turned out.

that thread alone was visited more than 2,980 times and graced with 204 contributions.

jonathan dough

Jonathan Dough - Those you knew who have constructed a more substantial belief system based on their own understanding of the bible, tell me, how have their lives become better than those of the JWs?.

You are intentionally ignoring what I said. True Christian believers will be saved. You won't. Again, you are dodging the issue of eternal salvation and God's will by focusing on the "here and now." Reread my post, if you read it in the first place. No one said being a Christian would guarantee a good life. The Bible is rife with examples of Christians suffering persecution, hard times, death, poverty, being thrown to the lions, nailed to crosses ... and it will be bad for some believers in the future as well as the end times progress. Christianity is not a cakewalk and framing your issue in terms of "a better life today" is myopic and ignores Scripture. True Christians have Jesus, you don't. Those belonging to Christiandom, the true believers, have better lives because they have the Almighty and his Christ. You don't. Any concept of a better life that JWs presume to have is ultimately a delusion, a false belief that things are better, but that is merely on the surface. If JWs do find God's favor it is not because they are Jehovah's Witnesses, but despite being JWs. Something tells me you aren't even a JW, but an instigator trying to get some debate going. http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahs_witnesses_directory_beliefs.html

Anyone considering joining the religion of the Jehovah's Witnesses, or current members of this group, are generally unfamiliar with its early history, the beliefs and practices of its founder Charles Taze Russell and to a lesser extent Joseph F. Rutherford. The Watchtower Society goes to great lengths to distance itself from Russell and his teachings as they are now considered anathema, and bizarre. The foundational tenets of the faith are so different from today's religion that the Russell-era organization is virtually unrecognizable.

Much of the old doctrine has been thrown out and would be condemned as seeped in the occult and clearly pagan today, and for good reason, because such conduct and beliefs are unscriptural and prohibited. Harsh words, no doubt, but facts speak for themselves and explain to a great extent some of today's questionable doctrine and practices. Try as the Jehovah's Witnesses do, there is no escaping their occult pagan past. Potential converts are forewarned and are advised to study these issues carefully. Below are numerous websites devoted to exposing the Jehovah's Witnesses' deep connection with the occult and its pagan origins.

This documented historical connection with the occult is evident in several ways. Russell relied heavily on astrological predictions and signs of the zodiac. Rutherford believed that Jehovah most likely resided in the Pleiades constellation. Many of Rutherford and Russell's false predictions were calculated based on alignment and measurement of ancient Egyptian pyramids relying in essence on the powers of the occult. A small pyramid was erected next to Russell's grave as a memorial to his life and work. The satanic All-Seeing Eye of occult worship adorns Russell's memorial pyramid, and early Watchtower publications incorporate Masonic symbolism to a great degree. Furthermore, the Divine Plan of the Ages, an early Watchtower book, is adorned with the Winged Sun Disc, an Egyptian religious symbol of pagan origins and false worship.

The Jehovahs Witnesses can run from their occult past, but they can't hide. Nor can they sweep these truths under the rug of their New Light Doctrine. Due to such an un-biblical foundation that continued well into the 1920s, it is inconceivable that Jesus Christ chose the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society as their sole representatives on earth due to the purity of their faith.

http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/occult_jehovahs_witnesses.html